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	<title>Comments on: Education, Education, Education</title>
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	<link>http://www.y2kprawn.ie/2009/04/education-education-education/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on life, work and technology from a ShellFish Superhero</description>
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		<title>By: Myles</title>
		<link>http://www.y2kprawn.ie/2009/04/education-education-education/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Myles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.y2kprawn.ie/?p=79#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Hello,
A semi-convincing argument for introducing fees is that those who benefit from higher education have higher earning power and that they should pay some contribution towards opening up this potential.

The tax argument doesn&#039;t hold much water as we&#039;re now among the lowest tax regimes in Europe. 

Ideally, I&#039;d prefer a radically revised grant system paid for if necessary by tax. But that won&#039;t happen.

If (WHEN) fees are reintroduced, I&#039;d love to see the cash invested at primary and second level, where it might actually contribute to widening participation rates at third level. But we all know that this is not where the money will go.

On balance, I think that the immediate effect of fees will be, as Rob says, the discouragement of people from going to college.

Finally, the delay on a decision (that we all know has really already been made) until after the local and European elections is very dodgy (to put it politely). Leaving Cert students will get CAO offers in August. That leaves only a few weeks for the department of education to set up the fee mechanism (assuming that it hasn&#039;t already been done, Wizard of OZ style, behind the scenes). What are the chances that he department get it right in the time available? Might the CAO offers be construed as an offer of contract (prior to finalisation of fees)? Does this mean that the whole thing will end up in the courts??? (As suggested here: http://www.mikecosgrave.com/blog2006/)
Joe Bloggs accepts a place in college prior to finalisation of fees. Then fees come in. Next, Joe&#039;s parents go to the high court...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
A semi-convincing argument for introducing fees is that those who benefit from higher education have higher earning power and that they should pay some contribution towards opening up this potential.</p>
<p>The tax argument doesn&#8217;t hold much water as we&#8217;re now among the lowest tax regimes in Europe. </p>
<p>Ideally, I&#8217;d prefer a radically revised grant system paid for if necessary by tax. But that won&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>If (WHEN) fees are reintroduced, I&#8217;d love to see the cash invested at primary and second level, where it might actually contribute to widening participation rates at third level. But we all know that this is not where the money will go.</p>
<p>On balance, I think that the immediate effect of fees will be, as Rob says, the discouragement of people from going to college.</p>
<p>Finally, the delay on a decision (that we all know has really already been made) until after the local and European elections is very dodgy (to put it politely). Leaving Cert students will get CAO offers in August. That leaves only a few weeks for the department of education to set up the fee mechanism (assuming that it hasn&#8217;t already been done, Wizard of OZ style, behind the scenes). What are the chances that he department get it right in the time available? Might the CAO offers be construed as an offer of contract (prior to finalisation of fees)? Does this mean that the whole thing will end up in the courts??? (As suggested here: <a href="http://www.mikecosgrave.com/blog2006/)" rel="nofollow">http://www.mikecosgrave.com/blog2006/)</a><br />
Joe Bloggs accepts a place in college prior to finalisation of fees. Then fees come in. Next, Joe&#8217;s parents go to the high court&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Myles</title>
		<link>http://www.y2kprawn.ie/2009/04/education-education-education/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Myles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.y2kprawn.ie/?p=79#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Hello,
A semi-convincing argument for introducing fees is that those who benefit from higher education have higher earning power and that they should pay some contribution towards opening up this potential.

The tax argument doesn&#039;t hold much water as we&#039;re now among the lowest tax regimes in Europe. 

Ideally, I&#039;d prefer a radically revised grant system paid for if necessary by tax. But that won&#039;t happen.

If (WHEN) fees are reintroduced, I&#039;d love to see the cash invested at primary and second level, where it might actually contribute to widening participation rates at third level. But we all know that this is not where the money will go.

On balance, I think that the immediate effect of fees will be, as Rob says, the discouragement of people from going to college.

Finally, the delay on a decision (that we all know has really already been made) until after the local and European elections is very dodgy (to put it politely). Leaving Cert students will get CAO offers in August. That leaves only a few weeks for the department of education to set up the fee mechanism (assuming that it hasn&#039;t already been done, Wizard of OZ style, behind the scenes). What are the chances that he department get it right in the time available? Might the CAO offers be construed as an offer of contract (prior to finalisation of fees)? Does this mean that the whole thing will end up in the courts??? (As suggested here: http://www.mikecosgrave.com/blog2006/)
Joe Bloggs accepts a place in college prior to finalisation of fees. Then fees come in. Next, Johney&#039;s parents go to the high court...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
A semi-convincing argument for introducing fees is that those who benefit from higher education have higher earning power and that they should pay some contribution towards opening up this potential.</p>
<p>The tax argument doesn&#8217;t hold much water as we&#8217;re now among the lowest tax regimes in Europe. </p>
<p>Ideally, I&#8217;d prefer a radically revised grant system paid for if necessary by tax. But that won&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>If (WHEN) fees are reintroduced, I&#8217;d love to see the cash invested at primary and second level, where it might actually contribute to widening participation rates at third level. But we all know that this is not where the money will go.</p>
<p>On balance, I think that the immediate effect of fees will be, as Rob says, the discouragement of people from going to college.</p>
<p>Finally, the delay on a decision (that we all know has really already been made) until after the local and European elections is very dodgy (to put it politely). Leaving Cert students will get CAO offers in August. That leaves only a few weeks for the department of education to set up the fee mechanism (assuming that it hasn&#8217;t already been done, Wizard of OZ style, behind the scenes). What are the chances that he department get it right in the time available? Might the CAO offers be construed as an offer of contract (prior to finalisation of fees)? Does this mean that the whole thing will end up in the courts??? (As suggested here: <a href="http://www.mikecosgrave.com/blog2006/)" rel="nofollow">http://www.mikecosgrave.com/blog2006/)</a><br />
Joe Bloggs accepts a place in college prior to finalisation of fees. Then fees come in. Next, Johney&#8217;s parents go to the high court&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ilya</title>
		<link>http://www.y2kprawn.ie/2009/04/education-education-education/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.y2kprawn.ie/?p=79#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Hey Rob.

&gt;&gt;Lets rip apart the last foundation of Ireland, free education

It is not very true to say that education is free. You pay for it with those progressive taxes (20% to 41% ;) that Ireland got going. People who have no education and just ordinary jobs, earn &#039;small&#039; and pay small taxes. People with good education usually get nice jobs, nice pay and have to say goodbye to 41% of their overpay.  I&#039;d say you know all that yourself anaway.

So. If the goverment was to introduce the fees, they would need to remove that progressive tax as well. Otherwise it would seemply be unfair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Rob.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;Lets rip apart the last foundation of Ireland, free education</p>
<p>It is not very true to say that education is free. You pay for it with those progressive taxes (20% to 41% <img src='http://www.y2kprawn.ie/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  that Ireland got going. People who have no education and just ordinary jobs, earn &#8217;small&#8217; and pay small taxes. People with good education usually get nice jobs, nice pay and have to say goodbye to 41% of their overpay.  I&#8217;d say you know all that yourself anaway.</p>
<p>So. If the goverment was to introduce the fees, they would need to remove that progressive tax as well. Otherwise it would seemply be unfair.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.y2kprawn.ie/2009/04/education-education-education/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.y2kprawn.ie/?p=79#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Nail on head. Although i would like hammer that nail into several of the ministers heads. Once again that inept shower of useless bumbling goons show their complete lack of foresight. We are no longer a country where mass producing factories is viable - we are just too expensive, and no matter how much they try and recede the inflation that has happened in the past to make us competitive, it won&#039;t happen. We cant compete with the likes of India, China, South America or Eastern Europe. We can&#039;t dilute our currency like we could have done in the past to make us competitive. The average Joe can&#039;t take a massive pay cut whilst still paying for that 300K house. 

So, what can we do? Well we can create a country that has the most educated people in the world - make Ireland into the centre of innovation and development. We are known throughout the world for being progressive thinkers and even visionaries. 

How do we achieve this? By ensuring that everyone has a fair crack at the whip - anyone, no matter where they are from should be entitled to free education. If you mess about and don&#039;t take it seriously then by all means you should have to pay, but everyone should have the chance. Unfortunately this won&#039;t happen because the highly educated wouldn&#039;t go near a ministerial position and therefore we are left with the goons... and these goons have the foresight of a lemming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nail on head. Although i would like hammer that nail into several of the ministers heads. Once again that inept shower of useless bumbling goons show their complete lack of foresight. We are no longer a country where mass producing factories is viable &#8211; we are just too expensive, and no matter how much they try and recede the inflation that has happened in the past to make us competitive, it won&#8217;t happen. We cant compete with the likes of India, China, South America or Eastern Europe. We can&#8217;t dilute our currency like we could have done in the past to make us competitive. The average Joe can&#8217;t take a massive pay cut whilst still paying for that 300K house. </p>
<p>So, what can we do? Well we can create a country that has the most educated people in the world &#8211; make Ireland into the centre of innovation and development. We are known throughout the world for being progressive thinkers and even visionaries. </p>
<p>How do we achieve this? By ensuring that everyone has a fair crack at the whip &#8211; anyone, no matter where they are from should be entitled to free education. If you mess about and don&#8217;t take it seriously then by all means you should have to pay, but everyone should have the chance. Unfortunately this won&#8217;t happen because the highly educated wouldn&#8217;t go near a ministerial position and therefore we are left with the goons&#8230; and these goons have the foresight of a lemming.</p>
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